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	<title>Comments on: DHS asks: How dare you question us!</title>
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	<description>Life between the brackets</description>
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		<title>By: thescholarsforum.org &#187; Stewart Baker Crosses a Line - What&#8217;s the Strategy? ( Immigration and Labor Markets )</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/dhs-asks-how-dare-you-question-us/#comment-751</link>
		<dc:creator>thescholarsforum.org &#187; Stewart Baker Crosses a Line - What&#8217;s the Strategy? ( Immigration and Labor Markets )</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 03:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourhrguy.com/?p=310#comment-751</guid>
		<description>[...] SHRM. He got written up in Politico for starting this public imbroglio. And the human resources blogosphere is popping with discussion of Baker&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] SHRM. He got written up in Politico for starting this public imbroglio. And the human resources blogosphere is popping with discussion of Baker&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Haun</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/dhs-asks-how-dare-you-question-us/#comment-747</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Haun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourhrguy.com/?p=310#comment-747</guid>
		<description>Actually SHRM HAS supported constructive suggestions in the form of comprehensive legislation for mandatory employment verification (called New Employment Verification Act or NEVA).

The problem I have with patched together systems is the same thing I have with every problem that is fixed with bailing wire and duct tape. Do we need a solution? Yes. Can we put some critical thought into it? Absolutely. Does fixing an existing problem with a broken system make sense? No. We can&#039;t favor &quot;any solution&quot; as THE solution. Why doesn&#039;t it make sense to develop a system that we won&#039;t have to continually fix over the next five years to make it work anywhere close to correctly?

And my comment about airplanes was intentionally hyperbolic. We aren&#039;t talking about college grades either. We are talking about people&#039;s lives and making them intentionally more difficult because the government wants to push a solution on employers that isn&#039;t even close to being complete. If a person is eligible to work in this country on August 1st, they shouldn&#039;t have to wait until the government updates their verification database or that they have to go down to the nearest office and figure it out (and in that time, they lose money that they didn&#039;t count on losing).

Nobody cares about those people at DHS. They  won&#039;t say it outright. It is a casualty to a misdirection of resources in the losing war against illegal immigration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually SHRM HAS supported constructive suggestions in the form of comprehensive legislation for mandatory employment verification (called New Employment Verification Act or NEVA).</p>
<p>The problem I have with patched together systems is the same thing I have with every problem that is fixed with bailing wire and duct tape. Do we need a solution? Yes. Can we put some critical thought into it? Absolutely. Does fixing an existing problem with a broken system make sense? No. We can&#8217;t favor &#8220;any solution&#8221; as THE solution. Why doesn&#8217;t it make sense to develop a system that we won&#8217;t have to continually fix over the next five years to make it work anywhere close to correctly?</p>
<p>And my comment about airplanes was intentionally hyperbolic. We aren&#8217;t talking about college grades either. We are talking about people&#8217;s lives and making them intentionally more difficult because the government wants to push a solution on employers that isn&#8217;t even close to being complete. If a person is eligible to work in this country on August 1st, they shouldn&#8217;t have to wait until the government updates their verification database or that they have to go down to the nearest office and figure it out (and in that time, they lose money that they didn&#8217;t count on losing).</p>
<p>Nobody cares about those people at DHS. They  won&#8217;t say it outright. It is a casualty to a misdirection of resources in the losing war against illegal immigration.</p>
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		<title>By: Not an HR guy</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/dhs-asks-how-dare-you-question-us/#comment-749</link>
		<dc:creator>Not an HR guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourhrguy.com/?p=310#comment-749</guid>
		<description>If the HR people are the experts on how these things work, then YOU and SHRM should be making constructive suggestions as to improvements to the existing system, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  If this is just a concern about databases, then that is an IT problem.  But, if every time something is proposed to address a problem (employers hiring illegal aliens to the tune of millions of people), people object to the nuances, there will be no correction of the problem.  As a result, there will be no progress in any of the broader employment based categories.  The national perception that illegal immigration is not being addressed is one of the underlying problems preventing rational consideration of comprehensive immigration reform.

Sorry about the whining comment, but I have been sseing too many &quot;whining comments&quot; (not constructive criticisms) on this issue.

And we are not talking about airplanes.  We are talking about paperwork, not fatal planecrashes.  SHRM cites 225,000 members in 125 countries.  Assuming there are more HR pros than SHRM has members, and you divide your 1% number (1.5 Mil.) by 225,000, you get a caseload  of a little more than 6 to 1.  Rough and unscientific, I acknowledge, but it doesn&#039;t seem unmanageable to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the HR people are the experts on how these things work, then YOU and SHRM should be making constructive suggestions as to improvements to the existing system, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  If this is just a concern about databases, then that is an IT problem.  But, if every time something is proposed to address a problem (employers hiring illegal aliens to the tune of millions of people), people object to the nuances, there will be no correction of the problem.  As a result, there will be no progress in any of the broader employment based categories.  The national perception that illegal immigration is not being addressed is one of the underlying problems preventing rational consideration of comprehensive immigration reform.</p>
<p>Sorry about the whining comment, but I have been sseing too many &#8220;whining comments&#8221; (not constructive criticisms) on this issue.</p>
<p>And we are not talking about airplanes.  We are talking about paperwork, not fatal planecrashes.  SHRM cites 225,000 members in 125 countries.  Assuming there are more HR pros than SHRM has members, and you divide your 1% number (1.5 Mil.) by 225,000, you get a caseload  of a little more than 6 to 1.  Rough and unscientific, I acknowledge, but it doesn&#8217;t seem unmanageable to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Haun</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/dhs-asks-how-dare-you-question-us/#comment-750</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Haun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourhrguy.com/?p=310#comment-750</guid>
		<description>Not an HR Guy: That number may not sound big but that&#039;s 1.5 million people if it is even 1% (6 million if it is 4%). I think that is an unacceptable error rate and so do lots of people. What if 4% of planes crashed every year? Would you feel confident about stepping on board?

Tell your friends at the DHS that we want a system that isn&#039;t broken and instead of spending time chastising organizations that point out their issues, they could attempt to solve. Is that too much to ask? Apparently so.

I don&#039;t understand why it is considered whining to point out an issue with a busted up system and to say that you oppose its mandatory use? Maybe you could clear that up for me, Pal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not an HR Guy: That number may not sound big but that&#8217;s 1.5 million people if it is even 1% (6 million if it is 4%). I think that is an unacceptable error rate and so do lots of people. What if 4% of planes crashed every year? Would you feel confident about stepping on board?</p>
<p>Tell your friends at the DHS that we want a system that isn&#8217;t broken and instead of spending time chastising organizations that point out their issues, they could attempt to solve. Is that too much to ask? Apparently so.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand why it is considered whining to point out an issue with a busted up system and to say that you oppose its mandatory use? Maybe you could clear that up for me, Pal?</p>
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		<title>By: Not an HR guy</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/dhs-asks-how-dare-you-question-us/#comment-748</link>
		<dc:creator>Not an HR guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourhrguy.com/?p=310#comment-748</guid>
		<description>&quot;The biggest one right now is that studies have indicated that at least 4% of the records are inaccurate.&quot;
   WOW!  4% inaccurate?  Shocking!  How could they possibly go forward with something with a 96% success rate?  Unbelievable.  You know, 96% will get you a degree with honors at the finest colleges and universities in the country.

&quot;What could these inaccuracies lead to? Oh, nothing too big besides losing your job or being unfairly rejected for employment. But the good news is, once you actually do get your records fixed so that you show up as verified, someone will probably already have the job you lost.&quot;
    Actually, the only one who will lose their potential job is the one dealing with an HR â€œprofessionalâ€ who overreacts.  Even if you do not show up as verified, there is an opportunity to pursue verification, so if the employer really does want to hire that person (and you all keep saying how hard pressed you are to find applicants for your jobs, and how committed you are to your employees and your applicants), then work with the 4% to â€œcorrectâ€ the verification â€“ or maybe many in the 4% are not eligible to work.  Not hard to imagine given the MILLIONS OF UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS in the U.S.

Stop the whining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The biggest one right now is that studies have indicated that at least 4% of the records are inaccurate.&#8221;<br />
   WOW!  4% inaccurate?  Shocking!  How could they possibly go forward with something with a 96% success rate?  Unbelievable.  You know, 96% will get you a degree with honors at the finest colleges and universities in the country.</p>
<p>&#8220;What could these inaccuracies lead to? Oh, nothing too big besides losing your job or being unfairly rejected for employment. But the good news is, once you actually do get your records fixed so that you show up as verified, someone will probably already have the job you lost.&#8221;<br />
    Actually, the only one who will lose their potential job is the one dealing with an HR â€œprofessionalâ€ who overreacts.  Even if you do not show up as verified, there is an opportunity to pursue verification, so if the employer really does want to hire that person (and you all keep saying how hard pressed you are to find applicants for your jobs, and how committed you are to your employees and your applicants), then work with the 4% to â€œcorrectâ€ the verification â€“ or maybe many in the 4% are not eligible to work.  Not hard to imagine given the MILLIONS OF UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS in the U.S.</p>
<p>Stop the whining.</p>
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		<title>By: HR Wench</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/dhs-asks-how-dare-you-question-us/#comment-746</link>
		<dc:creator>HR Wench</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourhrguy.com/?p=310#comment-746</guid>
		<description>Lance, you rock on with yo&#039; bad self.  I love this post.  I think I might marry it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lance, you rock on with yo&#8217; bad self.  I love this post.  I think I might marry it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Haun</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/dhs-asks-how-dare-you-question-us/#comment-745</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Haun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourhrguy.com/?p=310#comment-745</guid>
		<description>Well FEMA and DHS are in the same division. Not terribly surprising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well FEMA and DHS are in the same division. Not terribly surprising.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Haberman, SPHR</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/dhs-asks-how-dare-you-question-us/#comment-744</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Haberman, SPHR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourhrguy.com/?p=310#comment-744</guid>
		<description>Ah, DHS, the FEMA of Security!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, DHS, the FEMA of Security!</p>
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		<title>By: CJ</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/dhs-asks-how-dare-you-question-us/#comment-743</link>
		<dc:creator>CJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourhrguy.com/?p=310#comment-743</guid>
		<description>The Department of Homeland Security is the most woefully broken, yet powerful  agency in the USA (operating in and outside of the law).  Do no expect any objective or rational thinking until another administration is in place.  And then, it will be by a long shot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Department of Homeland Security is the most woefully broken, yet powerful  agency in the USA (operating in and outside of the law).  Do no expect any objective or rational thinking until another administration is in place.  And then, it will be by a long shot.</p>
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