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	<title>Comments on: The Errant Pursuit Of Quantification</title>
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		<title>By: Mark Birch</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/the-errant-pursuit-of-quantification/#comment-2098</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Birch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rehaul.com/?p=1534#comment-2098</guid>
		<description>Good post, other than the fact that you mistakenly call the awesome Utah Jazz “hated”.

On a serious note however, you are correct that an overreliance on numbers can obscure the true value of talent, but the challenge is that HR practitioners are making decisions based purely on intuition and qualitative factors. If they do introduce quantitative measures, the basis of these measures is completely without a defensible methodology.

The corporate equivalent of your basketball and Hall of Fame analysis is the sales organization. Sales is the offensive powerhouse and those that succeed by pulling in the big deals get the deserved recognition. This is because without sales, there is no revenue, and without revenue, there is no company. It is also very easy to measure sales and sales effectiveness. That does not mean that other functions that support the sales team or build the products or run the operations of the company are not important, it just means that there is a recognition that the contribution of sales keeps the company in the game. Without Malone and Stockton, Mark Eaton’s efforts would not have mattered.

I think that we can agree though that it is important that these key contributors are identified and appropriately recognized. These folks typically occupy what I deem “Positions of Pain” because of the very fact that you mention; they are unrecognized yet provide an outsized contribution compared with the status of the role they occupy and position in the organization.

What I think would be a disservice is to not develop an appropriate means to highlight their contribution in a way that measurably shows the extent of their impact. I believe there is a way to intelligently use metrics to provide insight into performance based on the needs of the job as a way of supporting (or refuting) perceptions of one’s performance. That seems to me to be a much fairer and rational way of recognizing talent across an organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, other than the fact that you mistakenly call the awesome Utah Jazz “hated”.</p>
<p>On a serious note however, you are correct that an overreliance on numbers can obscure the true value of talent, but the challenge is that HR practitioners are making decisions based purely on intuition and qualitative factors. If they do introduce quantitative measures, the basis of these measures is completely without a defensible methodology.</p>
<p>The corporate equivalent of your basketball and Hall of Fame analysis is the sales organization. Sales is the offensive powerhouse and those that succeed by pulling in the big deals get the deserved recognition. This is because without sales, there is no revenue, and without revenue, there is no company. It is also very easy to measure sales and sales effectiveness. That does not mean that other functions that support the sales team or build the products or run the operations of the company are not important, it just means that there is a recognition that the contribution of sales keeps the company in the game. Without Malone and Stockton, Mark Eaton’s efforts would not have mattered.</p>
<p>I think that we can agree though that it is important that these key contributors are identified and appropriately recognized. These folks typically occupy what I deem “Positions of Pain” because of the very fact that you mention; they are unrecognized yet provide an outsized contribution compared with the status of the role they occupy and position in the organization.</p>
<p>What I think would be a disservice is to not develop an appropriate means to highlight their contribution in a way that measurably shows the extent of their impact. I believe there is a way to intelligently use metrics to provide insight into performance based on the needs of the job as a way of supporting (or refuting) perceptions of one’s performance. That seems to me to be a much fairer and rational way of recognizing talent across an organization.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Birch</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/the-errant-pursuit-of-quantification/#comment-2097</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Birch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rehaul.com/?p=1534#comment-2097</guid>
		<description>Good post, other than the fact that you mistakenly call the awesome Utah Jazz “hated”!

On a serious note however, you are correct that an overreliance on numbers can obscure the true value of talent, but the challenge is that HR practitioners are making decisions based purely on intuition and qualitative factors. If they do introduce quantitative measures, the basis of these measures is completely without a defensible methodology.

The corporate equivalent of your basketball and Hall of Fame analysis is the sales organization. Sales is the offensive powerhouse and those that succeed by pulling in the big deals get the deserved recognition. This is because without sales, there is no revenue, and without revenue, there is no company. It is also very easy to measure sales and sales effectiveness. That does not mean that other functions that support the sales team or build the products or run the operations of the company are not important, it just means that there is a recognition that the contribution of sales keeps the company in the game. Without Malone and Stockton, Mark Eaton’s efforts would not have mattered.

I think that we can agree though that it is important that these key contributors are identified and appropriately recognized. These folks typically occupy what I deem “Positions of Pain” because of the very fact that you mention; they are unrecognized yet provide an outsized contribution compared with the status of the role they occupy and position in the organization.

What I think would be a disservice is to not develop an appropriate means to highlight their contribution in a way that measurably shows the extent of their impact. I believe there is a way to intelligently use metrics to provide insight into performance based on the needs of the job as a way of supporting (or refuting) perceptions of one’s performance. That seems to me to be a much fairer and rational way of recognizing talent across an organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, other than the fact that you mistakenly call the awesome Utah Jazz “hated”!</p>
<p>On a serious note however, you are correct that an overreliance on numbers can obscure the true value of talent, but the challenge is that HR practitioners are making decisions based purely on intuition and qualitative factors. If they do introduce quantitative measures, the basis of these measures is completely without a defensible methodology.</p>
<p>The corporate equivalent of your basketball and Hall of Fame analysis is the sales organization. Sales is the offensive powerhouse and those that succeed by pulling in the big deals get the deserved recognition. This is because without sales, there is no revenue, and without revenue, there is no company. It is also very easy to measure sales and sales effectiveness. That does not mean that other functions that support the sales team or build the products or run the operations of the company are not important, it just means that there is a recognition that the contribution of sales keeps the company in the game. Without Malone and Stockton, Mark Eaton’s efforts would not have mattered.</p>
<p>I think that we can agree though that it is important that these key contributors are identified and appropriately recognized. These folks typically occupy what I deem “Positions of Pain” because of the very fact that you mention; they are unrecognized yet provide an outsized contribution compared with the status of the role they occupy and position in the organization.</p>
<p>What I think would be a disservice is to not develop an appropriate means to highlight their contribution in a way that measurably shows the extent of their impact. I believe there is a way to intelligently use metrics to provide insight into performance based on the needs of the job as a way of supporting (or refuting) perceptions of one’s performance. That seems to me to be a much fairer and rational way of recognizing talent across an organization.</p>
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		<title>By: Edina</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/the-errant-pursuit-of-quantification/#comment-2096</link>
		<dc:creator>Edina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rehaul.com/?p=1534#comment-2096</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re a very clear-headed and intelligent person.
I like the way you think and I&#039;ve only just read a couple specific posts.

Thanks for the more lateral thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re a very clear-headed and intelligent person.<br />
I like the way you think and I&#8217;ve only just read a couple specific posts.</p>
<p>Thanks for the more lateral thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Seiden</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/the-errant-pursuit-of-quantification/#comment-2095</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Seiden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 22:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rehaul.com/?p=1534#comment-2095</guid>
		<description>Lance, first, thanks for the shout out to us Bulls fans. Very classy.

Second, great post, and great point. I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve seen the performance review I did with my daughter when she was in kindergarten... I often use that to make the same point. I did have one group that was particularly anti-the-idea-that-numbers-don&#039;t-tell-the-whole-story... so I asked them to quantify love. Where they ended up was a bit disturbing, b/c the name you give to a romantic relationship that is purely transactional is the opposite of the one that is formed on love—even though many of the quantifiable activities are the same.

I&#039;ll leave it at that. :)

Again, nice post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lance, first, thanks for the shout out to us Bulls fans. Very classy.</p>
<p>Second, great post, and great point. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve seen the performance review I did with my daughter when she was in kindergarten&#8230; I often use that to make the same point. I did have one group that was particularly anti-the-idea-that-numbers-don&#8217;t-tell-the-whole-story&#8230; so I asked them to quantify love. Where they ended up was a bit disturbing, b/c the name you give to a romantic relationship that is purely transactional is the opposite of the one that is formed on love—even though many of the quantifiable activities are the same.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll leave it at that. <img src='http://cdn.lancehaun.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Again, nice post.</p>
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		<title>By: HRPufnstuf</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/the-errant-pursuit-of-quantification/#comment-2094</link>
		<dc:creator>HRPufnstuf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rehaul.com/?p=1534#comment-2094</guid>
		<description>Lance, I am a quantifier, so I&#039;ve got to push back on this.  I think things can be quantified, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s always easy so we often make the excuse that it can&#039;t be quantified, or it&#039;s not worth quantifying.  I&#039;ll start with Grandmas gutters example (I think AKABruno handled the BBall one well).  Although you may not have reference point for quantifying the good will, there is still quantification that goes into the decision to clean her gutters.  I love my grandma, but I also know what my time is worth.  Therefore I have to quickly &quot;run the numbers&quot; and determine if it makes better sense economically to do it myself or pay someone else to do it.  The good will factor is probably the same, Grams gets the gutters cleaned, so it&#039;s all about numbers.
When it comes to performers in a company it is up to them and their managers to quantify their contribution.  That&#039;s one thing managers are paid to do, they shouldn&#039;t have anyone working for them that they can&#039;t justify having on the payroll.  Again, I know it can be difficult in some cases, but it&#039;s worth doing.
Excellent post and great discussion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lance, I am a quantifier, so I&#8217;ve got to push back on this.  I think things can be quantified, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s always easy so we often make the excuse that it can&#8217;t be quantified, or it&#8217;s not worth quantifying.  I&#8217;ll start with Grandmas gutters example (I think AKABruno handled the BBall one well).  Although you may not have reference point for quantifying the good will, there is still quantification that goes into the decision to clean her gutters.  I love my grandma, but I also know what my time is worth.  Therefore I have to quickly &#8220;run the numbers&#8221; and determine if it makes better sense economically to do it myself or pay someone else to do it.  The good will factor is probably the same, Grams gets the gutters cleaned, so it&#8217;s all about numbers.<br />
When it comes to performers in a company it is up to them and their managers to quantify their contribution.  That&#8217;s one thing managers are paid to do, they shouldn&#8217;t have anyone working for them that they can&#8217;t justify having on the payroll.  Again, I know it can be difficult in some cases, but it&#8217;s worth doing.<br />
Excellent post and great discussion!</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Haun</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/the-errant-pursuit-of-quantification/#comment-2093</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Haun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 22:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rehaul.com/?p=1534#comment-2093</guid>
		<description>Mark and Steve, Thanks for the thoughtful comments. You guys are both on the right track. Obviously we can&#039;t discard quantification but we can look beyond it and look for meaning.

akaBruno, my feeling is that it is always going to be harder to quantify basketball players than baseball because baseball is still so much about individual talent. When you can figure out within a statistical probability what an ace pitcher will add to your win column (and it actually works consistently), I just don&#039;t think you can do that with basketball.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark and Steve, Thanks for the thoughtful comments. You guys are both on the right track. Obviously we can&#8217;t discard quantification but we can look beyond it and look for meaning.</p>
<p>akaBruno, my feeling is that it is always going to be harder to quantify basketball players than baseball because baseball is still so much about individual talent. When you can figure out within a statistical probability what an ace pitcher will add to your win column (and it actually works consistently), I just don&#8217;t think you can do that with basketball.</p>
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		<title>By: akaBruno</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/the-errant-pursuit-of-quantification/#comment-2092</link>
		<dc:creator>akaBruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rehaul.com/?p=1534#comment-2092</guid>
		<description>Basketball is still behind the sabermetricians covering baseball, but it is improving.  Take Michael Lewis (of &quot;Moneyball&quot; fame) and his somewhat recent profile of Shane Battier and Daryl Morey (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=1&amp;pagewanted=all)

2004 also saw the publication of one of the best books of basketball statistical analysis, &quot;Basketball on paper&quot; by Dean Oliver (http://www.amazon.com/Basketball-Paper-Rules-Performance-Analysis/dp/1574886886/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1262900680&amp;sr=8-2) who set out the four factors key to basketball success: Shooting, rebounding, turnovers, and getting to the foul line.

David Berri is a sports economist who carried out some of Oliver&#039;s work in the 2006 book, &quot;The Wages of Wins&quot; (http://www.amazon.com/Wages-Wins-Measure-Stanford-Business/dp/0804758441/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1262900680&amp;sr=8-1) and he has a new book coming out in a couple of months.

I&#039;m more of a college hoops guy, and I find ken Pomeroy&#039;s site indispensible (www.kenpom.com).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basketball is still behind the sabermetricians covering baseball, but it is improving.  Take Michael Lewis (of &#8220;Moneyball&#8221; fame) and his somewhat recent profile of Shane Battier and Daryl Morey (<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=1&#038;pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=1&#038;pagewanted=all</a>)</p>
<p>2004 also saw the publication of one of the best books of basketball statistical analysis, &#8220;Basketball on paper&#8221; by Dean Oliver (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Basketball-Paper-Rules-Performance-Analysis/dp/1574886886/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1262900680&#038;sr=8-2" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Basketball-Paper-Rules-Performance-Analysis/dp/1574886886/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1262900680&#038;sr=8-2</a>) who set out the four factors key to basketball success: Shooting, rebounding, turnovers, and getting to the foul line.</p>
<p>David Berri is a sports economist who carried out some of Oliver&#8217;s work in the 2006 book, &#8220;The Wages of Wins&#8221; (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Wages-Wins-Measure-Stanford-Business/dp/0804758441/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1262900680&#038;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Wages-Wins-Measure-Stanford-Business/dp/0804758441/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1262900680&#038;sr=8-1</a>) and he has a new book coming out in a couple of months.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m more of a college hoops guy, and I find ken Pomeroy&#8217;s site indispensible (www.kenpom.com).</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Boese</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/the-errant-pursuit-of-quantification/#comment-2091</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Boese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rehaul.com/?p=1534#comment-2091</guid>
		<description>Love the post, Lance.  I remember Buck mostly from his days on the Nets and he was as you say just a tremendous and underrated player.  Sometimes in organizations we miss the Bucks and Mark Eatons of the team since they may not always be in the &#039;right&#039; place on the org chart or have what is assumed to be the correct pedigree.  I know Mark Bennett and I both have written about the use of social network analysis to help uncover these unsung and really important members of the company, and perhaps in 2010 we will see more of this method getting adopted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love the post, Lance.  I remember Buck mostly from his days on the Nets and he was as you say just a tremendous and underrated player.  Sometimes in organizations we miss the Bucks and Mark Eatons of the team since they may not always be in the &#8216;right&#8217; place on the org chart or have what is assumed to be the correct pedigree.  I know Mark Bennett and I both have written about the use of social network analysis to help uncover these unsung and really important members of the company, and perhaps in 2010 we will see more of this method getting adopted.</p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/the-errant-pursuit-of-quantification/#comment-2090</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rehaul.com/?p=1534#comment-2090</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by Pasmuz: Putting the smackdown on numbers. RT @thelance The Errant Pursuit Of Quantification http://is.gd/5RqEw...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by Pasmuz: Putting the smackdown on numbers. RT @thelance The Errant Pursuit Of Quantification <a href="http://is.gd/5RqEw.." rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/5RqEw..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention The Errant Pursuit Of Quantification &#124; Rehaul by Lance Haun -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://lancehaun.com/the-errant-pursuit-of-quantification/#comment-2089</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention The Errant Pursuit Of Quantification &#124; Rehaul by Lance Haun -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rehaul.com/?p=1534#comment-2089</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Bennett and The Industry Radar, Paul Smith. Paul Smith said: Putting the smackdown on numbers. RT @thelance The Errant Pursuit Of Quantification http://is.gd/5RqEw [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Bennett and The Industry Radar, Paul Smith. Paul Smith said: Putting the smackdown on numbers. RT @thelance The Errant Pursuit Of Quantification <a href="http://is.gd/5RqEw" rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/5RqEw</a> [...]</p>
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